It really is just you.
Related: Theatrhythm is secretly amazing.
Oh no no, you have it all wrong. Silent Hill is way more sacred than Final Fantasy or Shin Megami Tensei. You see, it’s only allowed to have obscure Japanese-only spinoffs like Play Novel and Arcade. Those kept the spooky scary spirit of the series. Book of Memories is way too non-Japanese and mainstream to be good. Obiviously.
well i don’t like final fantasy but I am very excited about mayonaka arena and Metal Gear Rising but again those games look good buko memoriru doesn’t please me, but is just me
I reserve judgement after the game comes out. Sadly, my interest has gone down. Not because it’s a spin off. Rather I can’t trust if it’ll be released in a finished state without the need for a patch. (Re: Downpour, HD Collection)
Dissidia is pretty damn good too
Stoked for the new game Tomm! Especially since we get to see SH go in new and interesting directions.
I’d also be excited for a Silent Hill Ac!D game. I joked about it once, but then started to think about it.
Silent Hill games are not supposed to be fun. They’re supposed to be super duper serious visual novels that recycle the same gameplay mechanics made by the holy race of the Earth: the OUR Japanese people over and over. If you don’t agree you’re not a true Silent Hill fan, you don’t appreciate art, subtlety, atmosphere, immersion, blah blah blah.
Anyway, Persona 4 Arena is badass and addicting. Glad it’s gotten as much attention as it has.
When is Jeremy Blaustein going to use his karate skills to do the mo cap for Pyramid Head in the game so we can have a ninja monster?
Also, a few car chases and explosions would be nice. Oh, and a hot asian chick with tight black leather pants and knee highs would make for a great ninja protagonist too! Oh, and she has to look like Tomm! And maybe bring back Alex from Homecoming and have Nicholas Cage do his VO! Come on guys! Get it together!
They should matrix cross over too.
And add teen vampire love story.
I guess you were you trying to be funny and witty there. Stick doing things you’re good at.
I’m trying to be good at making all your dreams come true. Wouldn’t all this be awesome?!
Sorry, but you’re just not adept at comedy.
It’s funny to see people complain about the direction of BoM when Konami could have easily followed Capcom, and a lot of other publishers, by wanting to face their games into a genre of mass appeal–action shooters.
I’m sure hardcore Resident Evil fans wished that that the survivor games were the least of their worries.
“when Konami could have easily followed Capcom, and a lot of other publishers, by wanting to face their games into a genre of mass appeal–action shooters.”
You mean like Homecoming?
Have you heard of something called Resident Evil?
He’s saying it’s already happened with silent hill:homecoming you derp
So basically you’ve never played Homecoming at all if you’re calling it an action shooter? Duly noted.
I really wonder if people complained about these kinds of things before the internet gave them an audience.
I mean, were people flagrantly offended because Nintendo made a Mario kart racing game and paint program?
Mario wasn’t a game with an overall narrative that showed artistic brilliance of it’s creators. It was a fun cutesy game that you could really do anything with. People played mario for the sole purpose to have fun, not to be told a compelling story with an overall narrative and theme such as Silent Hill. Which is why this entry is pointless because every single FF game is it’s own unique story and narrative. You’re told an awesome story, you use weapons and spells to kill things, you level up like you’re supposed to in an RPG, and you’re told a cool seperate story. Silent Hill was designed to fit into one narrative. It’s about a spiritual power in a town tainted by the presence of a cult that calls people with extraordinary darkness in their hearts and manifests said darkness in the environment around them. It’s pretty specific. Final Fantasy is about, well, everything. That’s the difference.
How about this: don’t buy the game, pretend it doesn’t exist and play the first three SH games.
Stop taking the series so seriously that you fall victim to this same little “purity” mentality all many other fans subscribe to.
And Toyama is not the end all, be all of Silent Hill creators. Silent Hill is never about a specific core of TS members like just Ito, Toyama, Owaku, and so on. It’s made by many different people. If the “core members” of TS are really all you needed to have a Silent Hill game, then the credits listing would be much shorter.
It’s not a matter of “appreciating Silent Hill in the right way” or “being a true fan” or crap like that. It’s about being mature enough to not complain about games you aren’t even obligated to buy. Sheesh.
Look, just go watch some TwinPerfect videos telling us stuff about the HD Collection we already knew months ago from many other people…you know, those people who actually buy their own games with their own money.
Explain Persona 4 Sam. “Arena” is canon.
Also, gamers weren’t upset when Mario was in an RPG with a complete narrative rather than a “cutesy” game.
I’ve never played personal 4.
A Mario RPG with a complete narrative can go wherever it wants because it’s original state had no premise or narrative set up. Survival horror is intended to evoke emotions, atmosphere, ambiguity, and most important, fear. IMO Silent Hill hasn’t done this since 4. Even my most ardent hate filled detractors agree with me that the new games just don’t deliver the same experience as 1 through 4. And it has nothing to do with Nostalgia.
I would like to see Tomm Hulett get the same creative control over a Silent Hill title that Toyama had over 1. Creator, writer, and director. Given that you seem to agree with someone who’s videos I recently shared with you about horror in general, I really want to see what you REALLY think about Silent Hill or at least horror. I hope to get that opportunity sometime in the near future.
This is just the problem, Tomm.
You don’t get it.
You never will.
Just go do something else that you have the aptitude for and that you can put your heart into.
It’s not in this.
You;re missing out Sam, although not Horror in the slightest, Persona 4 does have a lot in common with Silent Hill.
Not really. The only strong similarity they have is delving into the lore of a culture (Japanese obviously) and even then it’s not as heavily done as in Silent Hill.
I’ll give it a look.
It’s not about spinoffs, it’s about quality and spirit of the series.
Using your examples: Japanese SMT audience turned its back on P3, which had lower sales than P2:IS. It’s selling better now, but there was a serious backlash back in the day. (And P4A is acclaimed because it respects the source material).
Final Fantasy is declining because of Motomu Toriyama and atrocious MMO launch. Dissidia was a beautiful love letter to FF fans, even though it had the worst plot FF crossover could have.
I – and many SH fans I know – enjoyed Shattered Memories because of its strong writing (even though gameplay was too experimental for most of us to replay the game). It’s not about spinoffs, it’s not about being Japanese, it’s about quality.
For example: I can see Ito’s hard work in first three games and that’s why I love their art direction. Sadly, monster designers in following games were not half as talented as he was. Not even in my favorite post-TS game (Shattered Memories). But if Konami got someone like Beksinski (RIP) on board, everyone would be impressed.
Yes, there are a lot of whiners in SH community, but people here are not better than them. “Everything is fine and dandy!” It’s not like HD Collection was a travesty – no, not because of voices – and Book of Memories looks completely unappealing to most gamers. You are just being misunderstood. Sure.
What you’re saying has a serious flaw. I’m talking about the reaction BEFORE the games came out. Nobody said Dissidia would kill the series. Nobody made a petition to cancel Theatrhythm. RPGamers who hate Fighters said “Oh, guess I won’t play this. Tell me what happens to Chie guys.” Nobody made the baseless assumptions those games would not be “quality.” Why is Dissidia allowed to be “a love letter to fans” but BoM isn’t? Both are different genres than their source material.
That’s because it’s much easier to market Dissidia or Arena than SH spinoff.
Persona 4 and most FF games are pretty lighthearted (the most beloved FF has its moody protagonist crossdressing) and “pop”, for lack of better term. That’s why they are easier to adapt into something different. P4 Animation was a comedy. P4 Arena has a lot of silly stuff, but it’s not like P4 is different. Dissidia is about heroic figures clashing.
Silent Hill is about drama, horror and atmosphere, and when I look at Book of Memories all I see is a different take on L4D formula.
I watched your Gamescom 2011 movie, Tomm. I was excited when I heard a premise about “the book that changes reality” because it has a lot of potential and I was optimistic after playing SH:SM. Then I saw the gameplay and I thought “no, I’m out”. It doesn’t look like it has any of things I loved about SH. Sorry, maybe it is going to be as good as you say it will be, blame marketing or whatever, but that’s how I see it.
Hey, there were a lot of people excited about Shattered Memories, and you could argue it’s also a spinoff. That’s because artwork, screens, the previews, everything looked so exciting. When it came out, it made me appreciate my Wii after I was disappointed by No More Heroes (there are more and more people that would love to see him returning to his more serious style). I loved Climax’s take on SH1 and would love to see more games written by Sam Barlow.
Book of Memories… well, it looks like a game that no one wanted.
P.S. P4A and Dissidia are character-driven spinoffs. Theathrythm is a music-based spinoff. People love Persona and FF characters and always wanted to see fighting game spinoffs to these games. That’s why it’s a love letter. People also love Uematsu’s work and that’s why they appreciate Theatrhythm.
Book of Memories has nothing to appeal to SH fans’ nostalgia. Collection of Yamaoka music? No. Known characters? No. Classic survival horror gameplay? No. It looks like another SH: Arcade, like a teen movie with some random characters nobody cares about (like these atrocious comics with Christabella and Lauren – my first SH-related disappointment). The town is not enough, the quality of latest SH games varied quite wildly and HD Collection was a much worse experience than the one I had on PS2, something that doesn’t exactly convince people that Konami is up to restoring the series’ former glory. If BoM as good as you say it is, you need to market it better, convince me why should I be interested.
No one played Bomberman: Act Zero, people always hated the designs of Castlevania: Judgement, nobody liked Dirge of Cerberus, no one was interested in Death by Degrees. It’s not like “your” spinoff is the first one people hate.
Why are you trying to antagonize SH fans so hard (GET OVER IT) instead of trying to understand them? I know some of them will never listen, but it makes you look unprofessional.
Then don’t buy the damn thing and quit making a Lifetime Channel TV movie about it.
Okay, got it. Silent Hill isn’t supposed to have experimental “fun” type of spin offs because Silent Hill is nothing but super duper serious business because of all the drama, storylines, atmosphere, etc.
Which is why Team Silent gave us UFO endings and Heather shooting laser beams out of her eyes while wearing a knock off Sailor Moon outfit. Because clearly Silent Hill has always been about ONLY about serious business.
You know as much as people pander on about how Team Silent should could back I really wonder if they would want to come back and develop games for such as insane, unpleasable fanbase.
There are some very good jokes in The Walking Dead by Telltale. It doesn’t mean that I would buy TWD game that focuses on comedy. Perhaps there are some, but they are a minority, just like Book of Memories fans in the Internet right now. The game’s marketing is really bad so far, the backlash doesn’t surprise me.
I do care about the series, I – just like Tomm and many of guys here – loved Shattered Memories. That’s why I posted here, should only the people who are optimistic about SH future be able to discuss it here?
I won’t shut up about why I don’t like some games, I’m not telling you to shut up about games I don’t enjoy. “Get over it”.
People were angry about Silent Hill HD and it turned out it was a mess of a post. There was a lot of whining about gameplay in “Devil may Cry” and guess what, it’s getting better with every demo version. Negative feedback before release DOES matter.
And why the hell are you talking about Team Silent? I haven’t said anything about them, they were not necessary to make SH:SM enjoyable. It seems you have a personal problem with some fans and attack me instead of them. Who is needlessly hostile here, me or you?
Perhaps there are some people (that would)
Mess of a post = mess of a game
100% serious question: if some dudes made a series of hour-long videos repeatedly accusing you of, I don’t know, taking dicks for coke, would you feel antagonistic towards them?
Yes, but I wouldn’t lash out on every person that tries to offer me some constructive criticism. Because no one would take me seriously if I did. I would focus my anger on people who hate me or even better, ignore them and let them fade into obscurity by working hard to make them shut up.
And yes, Some Dudes are orthodox and prone to exaggeration (they hated SH:SM for reasons I don’t even understand), but sadly, even I think that their HD Collection has a lot of justified criticism.
They could cut on insults and jokes, these were kind of embarassing, but I can’t deny that I hated playing HD Collection, mostly for the same reasons they did.
Hour-long hate videos are so far beyond constructive criticism it’s not even funny.
You’re missing the point. There’s a time when complaining stops being normal complaining and just goes into mindless whining territory. Nowhere did I say anything about not criticizing the HD Collection because there is no denying it’s that terrible.
However, in Book of Memories case, the game hasn’t even come out yet and the majority of the complaints are simply because it went in a dungeon crawler direction. That’s not really what I would say constructive criticism. At least wait until the damn thing comes out if you want to ridicule it.
I wasn’t saying that their videos are constructive criticism, I said that’s what my comments are trying to be.
And even so, I would say that in their newest movie at least 45 minutes of one hour consists of pointing out the issues the ports have. It doesn’t consist entirely of hate as some people here choose to believe. HD Collection does have a lot of issues, I personally don’t know anyone who is satisfied with it!
Besides, can we talk about the comments that are here, not elsewhere? You guys keep talking about “hardcore SH fans who worship Team Silent” and Twin Perfect even though I am trying not to mention them. I get it, some of you love all the new games and are incredibly defensive of them, but it’s almost painful at times.
The marketing is terrible, the screens look unappealing (look at Facebook comments! People there aren’t exactly hardcore gamers), we can’t even get a proper release date, we haven’t seen what makes the game “Silent Hill” apart from the name. It doesn’t even look like fun, perhaps it is, but it’s Konami’s job to show me why it is worth my attention.
And you are not listening to me. I repeat: people WILL offer criticism about the series because they care, just like they did with DmC (and they got some results), like they do with many fighting games. HD Collection doesn’t prove that Konami is taking SH seriously. And even Wayforward’s fans admit that they are good at making 2D games, not 3D games. People have spoken – most of them don’t want Silent Hill to turn into dungeon crawler because they are looking for something different from mainstream games.
A good game, a game worthy of the famous name will defend itself. Remember the arguments about Deus Ex 3? The developers never whined about not being accepted. They just delivered a solid game, free of most issues that were seen in preview versions. But it’s an exception to the rule. You don’t see the haters anywhere anymore, but I’m sure there would be a lot of them if devs acted like Tomm and began attacking the original DX fans.
Why is being optimistic about the upcoming game allowed, and being pessimistic about it is not?
Seriously, Tomm you’re calling out the very fans of the series for caring what’s happening to it. Personally I have no interest in the Vita or BoM but I would question it’s quality especially since it was slated to release with the last two installments, one of which I will never receive a patch for, and the other that had performance issues and seriously uninspired enemies.
This franchise deserves AAA treatment, take a gander at Assassin’s Creed III, this series has so much potential. Even in the state it’s in, it’s very premise is better than Resident Evil. You and Konami need to start treating the series with a bit more care and respect, you’re losing fans. I’m usually just a loyal fan of the series but after the HD Collection debacle, I’m just not sure anymore. A simple hex edit to Silent Hill 2 on pc and it’s widescreen, HD and 3D capable, yet a whole team of developers couldn’t get it nearly as good at 720p. You need to keep the series in capable hands, there’s no reason Downpour or the HD Collection should have been released in the states they were.
I think Tomm has plenty of respect for the series. He’s just also doing a job. And if HD and Downpour had flaws but the higher ups at Konami still wanted to put out the games, well guess what, they’re Japanese businessmen and what they say goes.
Fair enough, I can understand not wanting to piss off “the boss” because in the end your very livelihood depends on it but I do stand by Konami need(s) to start treating the series with a bit more care and respect. The blame lies on many people and I would and never have singled Tomm out in that respect.
Not meaning to whine but both HD collection and Downpour had a lot of quality issues, especially HD collection. While it is important to try to give something the benefit of the doubt past experience hasn’t been too kind and there’s little to make fans think otherwise. I want to buy BoM but I’m done with Silent Hill day one purchases.
Its not far to last out at people who aren’t the ones telling you to die, or that you suck dicks. But after you’ve been abused about it for so long, its hard to tell them apart.
You’re being perfectly reasonable with how you feel about it. And if he comes off as defensive… I mean, wouldn’t you be. You don’t know who’s gonna lead you into another one of the same arguments the degrade into “DIE FAG.” Its a natural reaction for anyone who’s being somewhat mentally abused all the time. (Not to say this is a surefire case of mental abuse, but its close)
Just look at the comments in this post and the next. Look at some of them. Tomm posts a “I DON’T CARE” Scarecrow photo about TP’s videos and he has people saying he should go suck more cocks.
It’s only natural for someone who is being treated this way to be defensive. Even with people who are genuinely trying to discuss what they do and don’t like about a series.
I’m not gonna tell you to shut up about it. But, if you don’t like it. Don’t buy it. Problem solved. You don’t seem to be the kind of person that would do this, but also, don’t slam on me or anyone else that will maybe say they like it in the future.
Thanks Avianna. I certainly didn’t intend to come across like I was “lashing out” or attacking the entire fanbase. I can see why the ambiguity of the post would come off that way. I know everyone isn’t outright dismissing BoM, the post was more targeted at the idea that serious video game series could never have spinoffs of quality. Sorry if I came off like a snarky jerk – my wife says I sound like that on the internet sometimes.
Its hard not too. And I don’t think you do all the time. I can just how it can come off that way. And to be honest, I wouldn’t blame you.
And I don’t think you do all the time *or to everyone* (needed to add that)
Tomm, I understand that you are a business guy and that money is the reason you make these games, but I’ve gotta ask…. can you really tell me, as a big SH fan, that you honestly don’t get why most of us dislike what the series is turning into? I know you, as a business man, want to broaden the market. Sure, I get it. Maybe pull in some Halo gamers that curse our people over XBL… but you already had a large dedicated fanbase to the series to begin with. Changing and adding new elements isn’t going to draw people in. Shooter kids would be bored with it and you’ve made it a different genre for those that love the survival horror vibe.
Here’s an illustrated example for you to sum it up: I love pizza. I also love ice cream. Do I want ice cream on my pizza? NO. I like them both but want them to remain separate; they are both fine on their own.
Hey, I’m actually not a “business” guy, and my motivation is to make good games, not money. You’re making an awful lot of weird assumptions in your comments.
I won’t lie I was, and am still, pissed about the state of the HD Collection, see I blindly purchased it for the 360 and by now we all know the fate of that version and apparently I thought Tomm’s role in it, and Silent Hill in general, was bigger than perhaps it truly is/was. You live, you learn.
Personally, Silent Hill is my favorite series, I wish more psychological survival horror games like it existed, and when I read a post by someone that was so close to the series, and I thought in charge of, stating “Look Around, Silent Hill Fans … It really is just you.” I kind of took offense to that because it is directed to Silent Hill fans and I am a real fan of the series, I really give a **** what happens to it. I have all of them and I can’t wait for more. I haven’t been involved in all the “drama” that’s been unfolding and it’s a shame that people act like that, maybe if I had been I wouldn’t have taken it so personally.
@”I’m not gonna tell you to shut up about it. But, if you don’t like it. Don’t buy it. Problem solved.”
Well, if you’re talking about HDC, too late unfortunately. If you mean BoM, I won’t be buying that for a couple reasons, not interested in Vita at all and not interested in Multiplayer in any fashion. If it was a singleplayer, one character no AI partners, I’d be interested, if it was on PS3, XBLA, or Steam as well I’d most likely buy it. I’ve always wanted a topdown of sidescrolling Silent Hill, but even if it was singeplayer and accessible for me I’d still question the quality and be very weary about it at first, it’s only understandable after Konami’s stance on HDC.
@”You don’t seem to be the kind of person that would do this, but also, don’t slam on me or anyone else that will maybe say they like it in the future.”
Yeah I could really care less about what other people play, if you like it you like it. Personally I love 3D in games and I know what it’s like to have people try to ram their opinions down my throat about it, how it’s useless, it adds nothing to the experience, etc. BoM could very well be an excellent game and honestly I hope it is, even if I never play it, just because it is a Silent Hill.
Hey Fakename, I’ve been pretty up-front about my role in the various SH projects. It varies based on the game. My post from the HDC release date goes into detail exactly what I did on that (despite what some guys on a couch think). It’s disappointing to see the issues that ended up in the final product. As for my post, I really did not mean it as an “attack” on the entire fanbase. I wrote it as a jab at the people claiming that spinoffs were not allowed in a “serious” video game series (disregarding also that spinoffs can be serious too. Spinoff does not mean “spoof”). Sorry if my phrasing (or Destructoid’s tone) made it seem like I was blanket condemning you.
Maybe Silent Hill fans would be more content and not so upset with spin-offs if they didn’t feel so let down by the past few games? The HD collection could have been perfect, Downpour was easily the best game in ages but enemy design was a bit disappointing.
If they are hating BoM because they were disappointed that Downpour was “easily the best SH in ages” I don’t know what to tell them. That would be silly.
If by “in ages” you mean since 2008, then yes.
Only “parts” of Downpour were “easily the best”. The town itself was pretty incredible, the fog, the atmosphere but the rain, the downpour, never isolated you enough and there was never any reason to fear it, to try to run from it, to seek shelter. If there was something in the fog, in the rain, you couldn’t see it but you could hear it circling around constantly trying to catch you of guard.
As far as the enemies/monsters go. This was easily one of the worst in the series. There was hardly anything disturbing or creepy about any of them, if not all of them. I’m one of the few that actually loved Homecoming, especially for the monsters. Hypothetically speaking I think if you took most of the monsters and bosses from Homecoming and a few other SHs and dropped them in Downpour it would instantly be a better game, bordering the best.
The shower scene had to have been one of the goofiest things I’ve seen in any SH, it wasn’t so much it itself, it could have worked if it was done right. It was goofy because Patrick Napier was goofy, the way he ran, the way he reacted, it was all just odd and goofy.
Anyway, while I have your attention. It’s always been my “dream” that there would be a Silent Hill released every year just in time for Halloween. If you could stick with an engine for the game you can pretty much model the town once and just tweak it for each new chapter in the series, add story specific elements and enemies. I mean if sports fans can get their Madden 2013, 14, etc. then horror fans should be able to get their Silent Hill 2013, 14, etc. If the quality is there, then the sales will be too, if it’s not then sales will reflect it, HD Collection. I hope BoM sells well enough that it won’t affect future projects but with the main fanbase not being interested at all, coupled with the smaller Vita userbase, I’m definitely worried.
Forget dungeon crawlers, when is the series going to be more like SHSM? That was the best game since 4.
The Persona series itself is a spinoff of the main SMT franchise. Sure, there’s that old debate of fans preferring the old games over new ones and vice versa (sound familiar?). Controversy and unease always go hand in hand with any kind of change to any game’s formula. That’s something that’s always going to be a part of the industry.
This same kind of crap happens in just about every fanbase. And I personally find Persona 3 & 4 much more entertaining than the FF games particularly when it comes to gameplay and combat. So much more stuff to do and aspects like fusion, social links, school marks, all factor into the gameplay just about perfectly if you ask me.
Hopefully Persona 5 doesn’t take too long to come out.
First, I simply wanted to say thanks for making this blog and having the guts to allow open dialog. Big kudos to you for being transparent and still trying despite a growing polarized fan base.
I’m going to be honest though: taking these franchises lightly is currently unraveling SquareEnix. While FF’s sell well still, they slowly dip each release. If this is true with a ten year industry juggernaut, what about a smaller title who does the same?
In regards to Silent Hill, I really respect the direction Downpour took. I’m still only 30% in, but it is a refreshing take on the standard SH formula. But I bet you and the team must feel trapped. You need to appeal to a wider audience, but without frustrating fans. I feel for you on this impossible tight rope walk.
Here is what I personally believe should happen past BoM: call it silent hill, but change everything. Say it is because the main character experiences the effects differently. Don’t show anything until release like a Rockstar game. This franchise can get away with it from a lore perspective, which allows you to make a fresh experience. Be controversial, and not just in the reveal. Take on a topic like race or age, one that has never been explored in an adult manner in games. If it makes you feel like you might get fired then you’re probably on the right path. Then, remove the flesh walls and chains and show what horror looks like without a familiar trope.
(But fans hated SH4! Yeah, it was a really awful game at its core. The fresh ideas would have been lauded if executed well. It’s all about execution.
But this is what BoM is! It is a matter of tone. I wouldn’t play BoM for free because it adds a plastic veneer over stuff I like, and cheapens my experience within the other games. Had it cut all ties with the monsters/scenery, I would a willing participant.)
Downpour is doing some of this, but it is too conservative in the degree of change I would prefer. Playing a scary game template many times makes it completely not scary. I can tell the hope for change is there. The only way to get past this bump is to be the FVIII to the series FVII, not a never ending narrowed audience of FFXIII sequels.
I can see why Konami wouldn’t/can’t do this. Don’t kill the cash cow. But frankly, even after Downpour, I don’t think I can give konami money unless they learn to stop the skipping record of franchises. I think the community is feeling used and tired, so once again, I can’t imagine how you must feel.
Anywho, the point of this long rant is: cool blog, thanks for Downpour, and please convince Konami to try something ground-breaking so I can give them monies. Thanks for the time and passion you’ve put in keeping this series swinging for the fences.
That’s just it; Konami IS doing something ground-breaking with BOM, and your refreshingly pleasant tone is only being used to convey what is essentially the same baseless complaints as everyone else is.
The game could be crap. Then again, so could any other major release that looks promising. Why? Because “could” implies the fact that NO ONE HAS PLAYED THE GAME YET. The future is always uncertain because, by definition, no one has experienced it yet.
These unfounded outcries against SH always following the following format:
1) Insert obligatory reference to “past glory” of the series, while forgetting that both the first game as well as SH3 were kind of mediocre.
2) Insert generic “I’m scared of change” tagline
3) Proceed to insert narrow, personal definition of what future games SHOULD be, giving no acknowledgment of the fact that games are artistic expressions of the developers’ (not yours or mine) will.
I have a running observation which is: the greatest games were created BEFORE the prominence of the internet/interactive-based nature of gaming development. Why is that?
Same situation going on with our (the US) governing entities – you can’t make appeals to minorities and exceptions without degrading the quality of whatever it is you’re in the business of providing for the majority.
Want a game made to your own narrow conceptions, go find a way to enter the industry.
That’s where you’re wrong Swugly – several people DID play BoM at E3… and the previews were very positive.
Never did I claim to be an original. I’m expressing things my way though as best as possible.
I appreciate the passion, but your rant is pretty all over the place though. I’d try to reason with you, but you can’t argue with a person who didn’t use reason to get there. Your missing that I’m in fact the one requesting drastic change, not your narrow view. Please re-read my post and we can do a check for comprehension next reply.
It isn’t unfounded to claim that I won’t like something if it reuses old story content. Each time I see Pyramid Head strutting it lessens the impact. So, I chose to avoid this stuff.
That said, if you’re not like me (which I hope for you), then BoM is probably going to be awesome. It looks like the single best reason to own a Vita to me, and if finds its way to mobile devices I will probably cave and buy it. Because my flesh is weak.
And I did find a way to create this concept for me, and sold the movie rights to a major name a few years back. Games aren’t the only medium.
Hey Josh, thanks for understanding. However the issues with FF (even as you described) have nothing to do with spinoffs. It’s the quality of the main games that dictates “how things are doing”. I haven’t played an FF in 5 years, but I love Theatrhythm. I never got around to Dissidia but it intrigued me. When FFXI came out I just ignored it–because I had no interest in playing it. I expressed the opinion it should be “FFOnline” rather than a series entry… but that was SE’s call and that’s the call they made. So be it. Life goes on. If the FF series ends, it won’t be because of Dirge of Cerberus.
Right on – good points. Helps put this into perspective.
Thanks again for listening.
I can admit when I’m a quick fool. You have my apology; I read hastily without comprehension, and am guilty of what you claim. I testify from a tainted conception of fan criticism, however. I guess I have been influenced by the recent controversies surrouning the series, albeit in a different way.
I am a bit rabid when people attack proven talent because it doesn’t wear a familiar label.
Thanks for pointing out my fallacy!
No worries Swugly – we’ve all been there. Thanks for the apology and explanation.
I see where you’re coming from though, and felt the same way when I visited the forums. A mixture of sadness and rage about all sorts of topics. Lesson learned on my end: don’t go back into the forums for very long.
So I completed Downpour…
Wow! What an amazing game. The story was a clever twist on the typical formula, the open world elements were lovely, and the endings were all interesting ideas to explore.
You and the team should be very proud. Silent Hill 2 is a horrifying game but it isn’t fun to play. This game is, and yet has some real meat on the bone for psychological horror fans. Rarely do I want to replay a game after finishing it, and this is the first time I couldn’t help myself in years. Great work!
I’m hoping Vatra lives to Silent Hill another day, because if this is their first effort I can’t imagine where they could go next.
And I read Past Lives too. I’m hoping the next game will be from the POV of the mailman as he watches the town crumble through time. Rich scenery, the ability to tell a story across a century, monsters that are inspired from American history, and an unreliable narrator that learns he must break the rules of the system or stumble forward in time. Best of all, you satisfy lore fans while being able to inject something completely new. Fingers crossed!
I’m sorry if I can’t be bothered to commend you, Tomm, for instigating this interactive process (it’s’ great, btw), but I’m antsy to respond to these “fan” complaints we’re all continuing to hear about BOM DESPITE Downpour’s almost universally-accepted success.
Silent Hill, and I’m a bit embarrassed to admit this, actually played a key role in shaping exactly how I perceive the world around me; in some signficant way, SH2 was the first game that challenged me to question the in-game world as well as the character I was playing. This, of course, spilled over to influence my real world cognitive abilities and, as such, I often cite SH as being monumental to my development as a rational, inquisitive being.
That being said, I’m perhaps the series biggest critic. Simply put, Downpour exceeded any expectations I harbored after being crushed by games like Homecoming and/or SH3. Absolutely killed it.
So much, in fact, that after playing it, I couldn’t wait for to venture onto the message boards and witness what could only be described as the re-advent of the series’ relevance. I couldn’t wait to read the praises and glorifying rants and synopses!
What did I find? More stupid and foundless complaining. Instead of commending what is in my opinion by all accounts the first game to parallel SH2′s marvel, all I saw was more obviously-droned-by-popular-critic-review-complaints knitpicking and general moaning.
I hate that the internet allows people to spread negativity that would otherwise be isolated and ultimately negligible. With the entire Mass Effect ending debacle as well as the death threats I know you were subjected to during Downpour’s development, I think the entire element of artistic expression and freedom necessary for quality games is being squandered in favor of allowing fans to voice their [stinky/unfounded/immature] opinion.
Sorry so wordy, but I wanted to let you know that I remain hopeful for BOM and that Downpour absolutely killed it. I’m all for the prospect of you and your team NEVER again allowing fans to influence the development process in any facet.
You are right Tomm. Konami should invest in another Silent Hill game again, but this time with Pyramid head as the lead character who got lost in Ashville while scouting during an assassination mission for the CIA as a cover secret agent a la Metal Gear Solid, with a Grand Theft Auto game style where P-Head will have to rob banks and hi-jack cars to finance his horse ridding posse cowboy ninja. Mission, kill Rob the Rabbit with a duel of chess!
Sincerely just someone who thinks just like you.
I guess this off-topic, but I was wondering if you had any more photos from your time in the Czech Republic that you might ever share?
Bad move. Never blast the fans. Never…..
Go fuck yourself, Hulett. You are a cancer on Silent Hill now. You’re full of your own shit if you think your garbage dungeon crawler will come close to those three games you referenced.
I am a big fan of the Silent Hill games and I’ve played the demo of Book of Memories at Gamescom and really enjoyed it that I would have loved to take the demo with me. I am waiting for the game to become available in October.
Silent Hill is dead and has been for awhile.
At this point of it’s bottom feeding a spin off is a least of it’s worries.
But tomm all the games that you listed are genuinely a good games that had a positive reaction from both the fans and the critics(80+ metascore), I don’t think we can say the same about the recent SH installments too.
This is the most logical thing. Really basic.
You want the game. Go and buy it by all means —–> I will.
You don’t want the game. Don’t buy it.
It’s really that simple. Alllll this hoopla doesn’t make any sense at all!!
You are digging the Silent Hill grave even further with this argument. Those three spin-offs are GOOD GAMES. The past 3 Silent Hill spin offs have been GARBAGE!
If Book of Memories had the Silent Hill characters we all love and cherish interacting in whole new and exciting ways just as they do in Dissidia or Theathrythm I would agree with you.
But it doesn’t.
Your argument is invalid.
It seems someone finally gets it.
The Silent Hill spin-offs have been lazy hackjobs, unlike the ones you posted. The series is better off dead at this point. I mean, just look at how butchered the HD collection is.
But those games you listed are good, Book of Memories looks terrible.
Awesome post Tomm! I really do wish that the majority of Silent Hill “fans” would stop being so hideously overprotective. Book of Memories looks amazing and I can’t wait! I love Silent Hill, I love dungeon crawlers, I love character creation and I love co-op! You’re pretty much making my dream game
I am speechless in reaction to what everyone has written…
it’s just so wrong.
@Jake, when their argument is “those games are great because they’re out and have been played! BoM sucks and we don’t care if we haven’t played it yet!”, it becomes quite hard to take them seriously.
It’s funny that they found their way here from the Dtoid post making fun of these exact type of people. They probably had no luck in the comments section there so they came here.
It’s fans like you that keep me sane, haha.
I read your articles on Rely On Horror, and it’s so good and refreshing to see other fans take a straight-up logical yet passionate view on the series overall.
The Silent Hill fanbase is like the Sonic one. Even if you break down and just make whatever the fans ask for (Generations, Sonic 4, Colors)they will never really be happy. Miyamoto is currently going through a much milder version of this with the Zelda games.
Wow Tomm. You’re the man! Biggest penis within the Silent Hill fanbase! Bravo!
“Fans” doesn’t own Silent Hill, remember that. Konami can do whatever they please with the franchise. You don’t like it? Don’t buy it – simple as that.
Main problem is (why e.g. SH doesn’t sell that much anymore) that the old school horror in gaming is pretty much dying (on consoles, at least). At least my biggest fear is that it’s dying (hope I’m wrong).
Look at Resident Evil 5-6 and other similar games from the recent years – the “action” has taken over the “horror” (although Dead Space and Bioshock did a good job of mixing these two genres). Amd MP is the name of the game in every single game. “Horror” is too slow for many gamers now (go figure).
I’m a big fan of Silent Hill and SH1 was an experience that I’ll ever forget. Same with SH2 (I’m glad that the HD-collection is out – it’s certainly not THAT bad). But I’m always waiting for the new SH games on the series – like Book of Memories.
Konami: Don’t listen to these “better off dead” comments. Real fans want SH games and they want quality horror. Keep SH as a horror franchise and most fans are probably happy. These horror games will never sell 5 million copies anymore – you have to invent the time machine for that.
Keep the budgets lower and keep the horror quality – and there’s no need for MP/co-op. SH is not the franchise that can compete with GTA, Batman, Skyrim, Uncharted etc.
I make no judgemental one way or another on BoM until it releases. I can’t say it looks incredibly interesting to me currently because I’m just not typically into dungeon crawlers to heavily, but, that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be willing to give it a try and who knows, it may actually end up being a lot of fun.
But, I think some of you are just plain ignorant and stupid. The game is a spinoff. A spinoff means it doesn’t need to adhere to the conventions of the main series. If they want to make a beat rythm game with kawaii versions of the silent hill chars like Theatrythym they can because it’s a spin off.
To actively complain and tell someone to die and get cancer and other moronic bullshit because you are upset a SPIN-OFF game isn’t playing like a main series entry game is just profoundly stupid and ignorant and speaks volumes about your intelligence and character.
And some of you have made comments about how it needs to stay true to the source material and relay the same kind of feeling. I question if any of you have really paid any actual attention to BoH then because it makes an effort to ground it’s story into the SH world and the world is in the macabre of SH. It however, does not need to be a slow paced fog induced, puzzle solving, horror game because those are the conventions of the survival horror genre of game. As a SPIN-OFF the very genre of the game is changing and thus it obviously does not need to focus on survival horror conventions.
That’d be like saying you expect a Silent Hill Race car game to be slow paced, fog induced, involve puzzles and strong story centric narrative.
A game can play homeage to it’s source material without actively following the same conventions of it’s genre.
Theatrythym is the perfect example as it does not have huge worlds to explore, massive storyline, huge character development, etc. All staples of the FF series. Yet, it still manages to feel like an FF game through it’s use of field events and battles to the songs as well as it’s leveling, abilities, weapons, items etc.
So just because Book of Memories does not contain staples of the survival horror convention in it’s gameplay does not mean the game is not playing tribute to the source material and won’t ‘feel’ like SH.
In short, chill the **** out people. It’s a spin off, get the hell over it.
Хуллет, иди на хуй!
The level of polish on P4A was through the roof.
Fans were upset and skeptical until this became apparent.
Now, Downpour (as much as I love it. Fantastic game) wasn’t as polished as it should have been in my opinion.
So i’m just a little worried. Still, and not going to be an asshole “fan” and petition the shit out of it.
Tomm, I truly am sorry for the crap you have to put up with.
On the lighter side though, thanks for mentioning P4A. Amazing game. Needs more publicity.
Sometimes i wonder – why the hell did Konami appointed this clown as producer for Silent Hill series?
It’s no surprise that now SH franchise is damaged beyond repair and sales are constantly dropping.
The reaction this is getting is just plain disgusting. You people do realize that by pulling the “OMG DIE U CANCER!” and “RIP SH!” bullshit you’re proving Tomm’s point, right? He’s pointing out that this fanbase is the most obsessive, whiny, pathetic group of “fans” out there, and he’s right.
In a sea of Sonic fans, FF fans, and the umpteen other obsessive fanbases out there, you guys ARE the worst, and I say that as a fan of this series. I’ve played them since the beginning and I don’t plan on stopping. But you guys? You’re free to. No one’s holding a gun to your junk and threatening to blow your balls off if you don’t drop sixty bucks on the next game. No, not even Tomm. If you’re that “disgusted” by the direction the games are taking, leave.
But let’s not discuss quality or any of that, let’s just look at Tomm’s post for a moment… He’s right. Seriously, it really is just you.
Metal Gear? Card game spin off, no one gave a damn.
Sonic? Several racing games, pinball, Puyo Pop clones, a fighter, and more. No one cared.
Final Fantasy? Fighters, tactical RPGs, RTS, tower defense, rhythm games, crossovers with Disney. No complaints, just endless praise and a never ending sea of cash for Square.
Mario’s been driving a kart, turning into a pinball, playing soccer, tennis, golf, and baseball, traveling to the Bean-Bean kingdom in RPG form, etc, etc.
Pokemon’s crossed over with Nobunaga’s Ambition of all things, played pinball, given us a camera to “catch” our Pokemon, had us become Pokemon in a rogue-like, made us take care of the world’s dumbest Pikachu, given us some crappy TV in Pokemon Channel, etc, etc, etc.
Even shorter series like House of the Dead have hilarious, and beloved at that, spin offs. Typing of the Dead? Classic.
My point is, yes, it really is just you. You can say “oh, but we know those games are good!” Well no shit, considering some are upwards of twenty years old. But did you know that a Mario racing game or a Metal Gear card game would be good before they came out? Do those sound like ideas that make sense?
WayForward is a fantastic company, they’ve made classics for going on twenty years now. Why doubt them this time? They’ve worked with Konami before and done great things. Thank them for bringing Contra back. Otherwise, what do we really know about BoM? It’s a new genre for the series, sure, but it’s handled by a talented group and it seems to be working itself into the overall plot of the series fairly well. (I’m personally hoping for some more info on Howard myself) What’s the problem? And answer without whining about a lack of a Japanese touch or crying about how this series, this ONE series, is somehow immune to spin offs. Please, I’m genuinely curious.
To close… What do some of you even know about Silent Hill, exactly? I see lots of butthurt rants about the series all over the internet, but how many of you responsible for this vitriolic bullshit actually know anything about the series beyond the main entries? I ask because, y’know… The Arcade? Orphan? That iPod FPS? The SH1 visual novel? Pyramid Head and Robby popping up in Konami’s own kart racer and Olympic games? This isn’t new, and if you weren’t so narrowly focused on one or two games in this massive series, you wouldn’t be surprised in the least. Ironic considering how much “true fan” garbage you folks spew. Thanks for having the balls to finally speak up, Tomm, I’m sure a lot of us appreciate the fact that someone’s standing up to these people.
You sir are a God and your words must be immortalized on every Silent Hill fandom. Thank you, and goodnight.
I’m the guy who wrote an essay explaining why people should give Homecoming a second chance a few years back… I can’t avoid an argument with these people, it’s just not possible anymore. It’s a blessing and a curse.
Typed with a Kindle. which is freaking difficult to do so please mind all errors and multiple abbreviations.
When someone promises me a good game. I get excited. SH:1234,HC,VN, and S.M, wer excepetional. But SH: HD and DP?? No. i spent over 120 dollars on these two games alone. An i expect an averge game, im not picky. but these were diasters. DP would have been great if combat wasnt forced down my throat. HD collect? Not even gonna go there. I dont care what Hulett has done or what fandom is the wrost or the best or the whiny-est, IDGAF about any of that. What i do care about is the developer making these games and above all The Decisions that will reflect on every single tv screen that it is being played on. Like a resterant that was under good management, their food (being the product) sold is typically great and gets a lot of customers, when the mangement changes and the food is horrible… whats gonna happen? People will complain. etc etc etc.
also when other note: you say what about all the other spinn offs: arcade, mobile, visual novel (which i have btw) most of that stuff was sold in japan and even here were not big on mentioning their release. Just because people do not devote every waking second on researching minor releases of what could be, doesnt mean we are not big fans. in fact “1-3″ games is all you need if you want to get the basic scope of the series.
im not complaining. Im just a little fusterated. let down.
so if you can get anything out of this it would be this:
1) who cares what hulett has done or what series failed in which game or aspect… metal gear, sonic, or whatever the hell he has done. This is about SILENT HILL. Everybodies favorite resort town since 1886. Not sonic. why is sega even here in this discussion?
2) I will bitch if i have to spen over 300 dollars over the entire series and 120 of that being wasted on shit gamees that just frustrate me (return them? gas is too much money for that.)
3) If you like a game; major or spinoff; your a fan. You dont have to know everything about it. If you liked the elements and the environment overall, thats basic enough. So you can shove orphan down the sink with that argument. (freaking hipsters).
4) If you had a cerebellum and understood just an ounce of the thematic impact of the games; you will comphrend why people wont leave the series. Why i still wont leave the series. Why we, as a fandom still hope. And why we are still bitter about the recent broken “promise”.
Im sorry that you stand up for huelett. Im sorry that you dont understand where the series is going. I hope that this beings a shead of light though your fog.
In the mean time….
“Welcome To Silent Hill”
We’ve been expecting you…
The post above this one should absolutely be the final word in this awful and long-running debate.
Tomm… Can you make a Theaterhythm-style Silent Hill game happen? Please?!
Also, a 3DS SH game…?
I appreciate your work.
I would love a rhythm game, but I doubt anybody would pass SH1.
Haha I suppose… Songs like “I’ll Kill You” wouldn’t work at all… But other, more melodical stuff would for sure.
Well, perhaps not a full game. But an unlockable minigame in a future game would be nice.
Try to picture a Silent Hill music/dance minigame as something like this.
Personally, I honestly would enjoy a Karaoke Revolution release of SH’s lyrical songs. You’d have to be a soulless beast not to appreciate that.
I really have to wonder why is it that Devin Shatsky’s name is never dropped when it comes to the “raping Silent Hill blah blah blah” rambling. How many Silent Hill fans even know about him or his position in Konami? I’m willing to bet the only face known to the majority of fans in relation to people working on any of the post SH4 games is Tomm’s.
Is there any chance of a Silent Hill character making a guest appearance in a fighting game? I guess if Pyramid Head is the only one people can come up with that’s fine…but how cool would it be to be Harry Mason or James and lay the smackdown?
No reason why he can’t be in Playstation All Stars.
Good point there. Too late for that though.
No necessarily. Characters are still being revealed. Also, DLC.
I guess. My gut feeling just tells me that it’s likely not going to happen.
There are way too many tl;dr posts for this subject of the blog. I take a gander at how the fandom is threatened by change.
the fandom is threatened by other people breathing
I think I might signature that on SHC, lol.
Three words. METAL. GEAR. RISING.
It’s not just Silent Hill fans, Tomm.
How many of the people complaining about MEtal Gear Rising are also Silent Hill fans? Just out of statistical curiousity.
Bro, the amount of people complaining about Rising doesn’t even begin to touch the amount of people bitching about Book of Memories. On top of that, there’s Ground Zeroes so the idiots that were whining have even less to complain about.
……i hate you so much tomm for what you did to the fans of Hill, Your lastest installment was more combet then anything..this game is ba and you should feel bad. Like your ending in Downpour:
We need to talk.
You messed it up for us, in my restless dreams i see that masterpiece. An installment that is worth playing. But this? no….. no i dont think so. Not in the slightest.
He do not care for fan.
He only want to roll around in cash
I think this comment might be an amalgamation of everything I hate about this fanbase. It’s as if someone fed every hackneyed, teary eyed whine fest from every forum on the internet into a machine and told it to smoosh it all together into a somewhat coherent thought used specifically to make someone hate this group. Good job.
Tomm Tomm,You Are A Glory seeking ASS..What You Said About Guy Cihi And The Rest Of The Silent Hill 2 Voice Actors Was Totaly RUBISH! How The Fuck Can You Say That The Voices In HD Collection Are Better? Just Because YOU Chose The Voice Actors? At Least Back In 2001 The Voices Didnt Sound Like People In A Booth Reading There Lines!! MARY ELIZABETH IS A FUCKING BITCH THAT SAYS EVERYTHING KONAMI WANTS HERE TO SO SHE WOULD GET PAID! How The Hell Can That Bitch Say ANYTHING About Guy Or The Rest Of The MAGNIFICENT VOICE ACTORS!? And I Heard Konami Dropped Your Script For The HD Colletction! WHAT YOU THINK YOOOU Can do better then team silent?! you are a joke and a fucking butthole! and the so called “FANS” that support you and mindless drones who dont know anything about silent hill and The Lore!! brain dead kids who think dead space is a horror game! Take Your BOOk OF MEMORIES AND SHUVE IT UP YOUR ASS YOU GLORY HOLE!! And yeah,This IS A HATE MAIL!!
First off, get a new posting gimmick besides making every other first letter of each word within the first half of your paragraph capitalized for no apparent reason. It’s not lulzy, original, and it paints an impression of bucket scraping rather than anything witty or skin piercing.
Secondly, Guy Cihi is a douchebag as far as I’m concerned. He’s goes from sheepishly pondering a lawsuit to suddenly proclaiming “oh, it was always for the fans!”? Like that was always his primary incentive with this debacle from the start?
Yeah, that’s bullshit. You never heard of any of the voice actors making the fuss that he did.
Lastly, if you want to ride his nuts just because he was a voice actor in ONE video game and that apparently means he has transcended humanity and turned into a deity we must mindlessly worship at every turn and never criticize, then by all means go right ahead.
There’s no doubt Konami plays a role in disasters like the HD Collection. However, by the same token there’s no denying that self righteous, spoiled brats like you who are constantly foaming at the mouth at every single SH release as if it’s a matter of life or death are also the other half of the problem.
you sound like a complacent dick. Calling people, that feel robbed of their money, “spoiled brats like you who are constantly foaming at the mouth”, for paying $120 for SH:HD and SH:DP is so goddamn stupid. If the best you can do is give incredulous rebuttals like that, I’ve got to wonder who’s nuts YOU’RE riding.
Seeing people lashing out against employees on a blog like spoiled children is likely going to entice people to call you as such.
I’m not at all satisfied with many of the decisions regarding the series lately. Doesn’t mean I’m entitled to throw a goddamn hissy fit all over the place about a video game series or borderline harass somebody on the development staff. It doesn’t do anything to help and only further discourages from taking those kind of people seriously.
I simply move on with my life because it’s going to be full of disappointments one way or another and there are more important things to dramatize about than video games.
Tomm, you’re causing more contention – as opposed to good – by attempting to expand and re-invent the market. Think about it… complaining fans will double if you bring in newer people. You have the real fans and then potential new gamers (maybe FPS fans). Well, when you think “let’s add more elements of different games”, you’ve got those of us that are going to be less interested because we play things games because they DON’T incorporate those cliche game mechanics and styles. FSP gamers won’t fully care about this genre or series unless it’s action packed, first person, and have online playability; they’ll never be fully satisfied either unless it’s mostly like their FPS games. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. This should be obvious with all the backlash. If you want to be successful with this, just replay the old games, pay attention to what they do and try to take cues from that. We love all the OLD game mechanics. I know we (real fans) give you crap, but we genuinely LOVE this game series. Market to us, do it right, and we’ll keep buying these. I promise.
on that note, I bought Downpour for $50 and hate it for the following reason:
- no weapon inventory/breakable weapons
- frame rate gets jittery whenever you run
- the story is cliche and uninspired
- the monsters and atmosphere is NOT scary
- every other sentence spoken is slathered with unnecessary f-bombs (which in past games wasn’t used often)
- the town itself doesn’t look at all like silent hill
The only good thing I can say about it is that visuals are quite impressive. Other than that, it’s sitting on my shelf and I feel like I wasted my hard earned money on it. The patch didn’t anything. Does any of this actually matter to you, Tomm? :/
We haven’t released a patch for Downpour yet, so I’m not sure what you’re referring to there. I don’t understand all your talk about shooters, shooter fans, etc. Downpour is not a shooter – it’s got the same focus on exploration vs. combat as the old Silent Hills. You’re free to dislike elements of the game, but calling it a shooter is a bit strange. If you meant BoM – that’s not a shooter either.
(real) fans? Give me a break with this elitist, scatological bullcrap. The second you start trying to elevate yourself above other fans by passing off your viewpoint of the franchise is the second you cease to be taken seriously. And you bring up FPS fans for no apparent reason and do a poor job of conveying why you’re bringing them up in the midst of that post.
You fandom is more diverse than you realize and you don’t speak for the entirety of it.
If I may go off on a bit of a tangent. People like him bring up FPS or other “lesser” genres to legitimize their tastes. That’s all it is. It never has relevance or anything of the sort, it’s just a jab at people who have the nerve to enjoy something they don’t. It’s the equivalent of a film fan crying about slashers being mindless gore in a conversation about classic scifi – no point, no substance, just mindless circlejerking to appease those with the same mindset as themselves.
*passing off your viewpoint of the franchise as that of being a “true fan”
Tomm using sock puppets to defend himself… that is very low…
So going by that logic I guess I can say every person who whines about the SH games on this blog are sock puppets to? Because there’s totally only one person here speaking out against all these tantrum throwing people, right?
Look, can we get some new posting gimmicks up in here already?
Your horrible lack of honesty in your use of logic just proved your hypocrisy, thus putting more weight on my suspicions.
Then also, the use of that last sentence of yours about gimmicks, while in it self is a gimmicks, just make this whole thing even more ironic.
I rest my case.
Augophthalmoses is not a sock puppet of Tomm; he’s been active in several Silent Hill forums for over a couple years now, and more importantly has a different IP address.
The thing I find a little amusing about this post is the assumption that spin-offs of the series’ mentioned above didn’t receive a lot of criticism.
Persona, until today, is looked down upon by many Shin Megami Tensei fans because of it’s simplified battle-system, it’s ‘less epic take on the story’ and it’s apparent pandering to a teenage fanbase.
Only because you can’t read Japanese doesn’t mean that criticism doesn’t exist. And believe me, Japanese hardcore fans can be as mean and dirty as the ones in the English speaking hemisphere.
A spin-off title, if not any title that tries something different needs to earn the respect or adoration of the consumer first.
Adoration can be done pretty quick just by throwing in as much fanservice as humanly possibly. Dissidia or Tales of the World come to mind; that is games that give you all the things you love in one place. Both series never actually advertise their plot, they always focus on “we have these characters and you can do these spells, etc”.
Gaining respect is harder because you have to know what aspects might have been absent from a series and could strengthen it or widen it’s appeal. These are games like Persona (creating a more personal plot approach) or Seiken Densetsu (implementing an action battle system). They advertise their differences and their individual strengths, mostly not even focusing on their connection to a larger series anymore.
BoM feels, to me, as if it falls somehow inbetween. There are these neat little nods towards the series and there are these new elements, but neither seems to take a very active role and thus it just seems a little unambitious. I just don’t know what this game is supposed to give to me as a spinoff that no other title has offered me so far.
For example, if I could run around the Otherworld with Robby the Rabbit, recruting past Silent Hill characters to fight crazy monsters and do fun minigames based on past entries, while the characters provide fun meta-banter about their games, that’d be fun. I wouldn’t take it serious but it’d be a FUN spin-off.
Super excited for BoM now that I’ve seen the European Demo video that was posted! Addictive, Diablo-esque gameplay? Check! Boat-loads of lore? Check! Hugely intriguing premise? Check! Not to mention massive replayability and unpredictability! I really like these ones that are largely different from pre-conceived ideas of what Silent Hill is (“Shattered Memories” is my FAVOURITE!) Keep up the great work!
((And “super-fans” need to learn their own insignificance))
I see a lot of people throwing around insults about how any dissenting opinion of BoM is merely “Bitching” and “Moaning”, and how they should just not play the game if they don’t like it.
This is a hypocritical argument (As explained earlier by Al) that lends no more weight to your opinion than those of the so called *Elitist* fans and really only makes you look equally immature.
I also see a lot of name-blame going on. I will admit that I have taken my share of unfair cracks at Tomm and Konami, nothing as harmful as the apparent hate mail Tomm has received, but it seems to me a natural reaction of someone who has been a fan of the series since the beginning and is being told,
“Your opinions don’t matter, we’re doing whatever we want with our series so if you don’t like it, play something else.”
And when confronted with this general disapproval (BoM) neither Tomm or Konami want to address anything and accuse the fans of being too picky.
We are fans, all of us. Our love of the series brings us back to it even if we don’t like the direction it is going.
There is a point when you need to take the criticism (regardless of how unprofessional it can be) and stop undermining the fans that have made SH what it is with their patronage, or you’ll end up like Capcom with their recent RE6 debacle.
Your problem as evidenced by your shitty youtube videos is that, in addition to not recognizing that Vatra and Climax aren’t American developers contrary to what your rant videos had stated, you’re incapable of recognizing that your opinions don’t speak for the majority of the fans.
There’s nothing wrong with not liking the premise of Book of Memories or being disappointed as I really would have liked something more like Origins myself. However, there’s a very fine line between constructive criticism and mindless bitching that does absolutely nothing but paint one as an immature dolt and carrying things too far.
I’ve been following for a while now I can certainly say with confidence that it really is congested with a bunch of self entitled assholes who have to make a Lifetime Channel movie about every single SH release. If you don’t like Book of Memories just refuse to purchase it and leave it at that. A spinoff you aren’t required to buy is at the very bottom of the list people should be criticizing especially when you look at the HD Collection.
If you haven’t watched my latest shitty videos, I acknowledged that mistake and corrected it.
And I don’t know about that, a lot of fans got irritated about BoM, many of them sounded much more pissed than I ever was. I was more pissed that the games I was “required” to buy weren’t scary or interesting and that the HD Collection was a damned horrible mess.
So yeah you’re right, it’s at the bottom of the list of criticism, but it’s a pretty huge list.
Also, define constructive criticism will you? If it’s using a comparative structure to outline how everything the new games do is fundamentally wrong and ineffective while offering alternative approaches, no amount of sugar coating will keep people from disregarding it as “Self-entitled bitching” if they have a differing opinion.
So take your own advice. If you don’t like our opinions, just ignore them. Or keep being a hypocrite and try your best to quash them.
Which brings us back to “you’re incapable of recognizing that your opinions don’t speak for the majority of the fans.”
Thanks for proving my point.
The difference with these games, Tomm, is they are actually good, plus they do not ruin their respective series.
Ah yes, that was the exact point my post was making–BoM is actually good, and does not (and could not possibly) ruin its respective series.
I already stepped up 2 the streets by creating the game and releasing the demo. You should check it out.
The low quality of the HD Collection and the incredible let downs that were Homecoming and Downpour (although, this one in a lower degree) don’t leave me much choice but to doubt your word about “BoM being actually good”.
Well the good news is there’s a demo available for free, so you can try it out for yourself and decide.
Tried it and definitely not my piece of cake.
Thanks for trying it Rosie! Sorry it didn’t meet your expectations.
As long as this guy is involved with konami, i’m boycotting all of their products.
And it’s not gonna be hard since they’ve been releasing western outsourced crap for years now. Except kojipro, of course.
I came to look at this thread and read a bit of the speculation occurring on the other side of the fence. You have Tomm Hulett himself responding to criticism and praise alike on this blog, which is very respectable. You have Augophthalmoses, the loudest and most outspoken supporter of Tomm on his blog- whose rebuttal to well worded opinions usually reads as disconnected, misinformed, and a bit like something a 19 year old girl with an axe to grind would type. Then you have a divided fanbase that really cares about their franchise, everyone with a different opinion about where it should go.
Silent Hill’s biggest problem, in my opinion, is that it simply feels like ‘an American Horror movie’ now. These newer games do not blend elements of American and Japanese horror as they’ve done in the past. I also feel that these newer games undermine the player’s intelligence. Put simply, no, I’m not a fan of the newer games. I do not rest the blame on Tomm Hulett for everything that is wrong with Silent Hill, but I contend that he has misstated on several occasions that he was lead designer- if it was a misstatement on his part.
If you claim to love the franchise more than I do, Tomm, I’d like to see Silent Hill put to rest after one more game. SH:SM, Downpour, Homecoming, Origins, and Book of Memories never lived up to the legacy set by the first three games- this much is inarguable. Why is it that outsourced developers cannot match the quality established by KCET and Team Silent? I suppose you would want to blame the fanbase, or the state of the games industry, or your amount of creative control- but, in my opinion, the games have taken on a level of ubiquity and hammyness since they left Japan, and it’s, to put it bluntly, depressing where this once beloved franchise has gone.
Here is the list of games within this franchise that I have bought and played to completion:
SH1, SH2, SH3, SH4, Homecoming, Shattered Memories.
Games I bought and put down:
Origins, Book of Memories, Downpour
I refuse to buy unused copies of the newer iterations as I do not want to support Konami’s decision to outsource development and continue the franchise.
And even if my entire above post seems moot or Augophthalmoses has a quick rebuttal which attempts to debunk my opinion on the grounds that it is ‘wrong’, or that I don’t know Silent Hill, let me say this last thing:
Silent Hill once had a dedicated fanbase, and the only thing we had to argue about was which game out of the original 4 was better. A huge chunk of that fanbase doesn’t decide to just stand up and turn coat for no reason when the fifth game is released. That chunk doesn’t grow more and more inexplicably when a film is released, or when more games are released, or when vocal performances are announced, or when a re release ships… the consumers of Konami’s product are becoming angry and tired of what’s happening to Silent Hill.
Persona 4 Arena, Theatrythm, and Dissidia were good games and not representative of great franchises losing their quality. Here are better examples- Resident Evil 5, Final Fantasy XIII- 2… oh wait, you appear to be generalizing the entirety of the Silent Hill fanbase by calling us whiners- that we have a hard time accepting the new games simply on the grounds that they are ‘new’. You are making the argument that nostalgia is the only thing keeping many of us from acknowledging that the games you helped create, ‘as lead designer with complete creative control’, are just as good as the originals.
I don’t really understand where this “lead designer” in quotes allegation is coming from. I never made that claim. If somebody said I did, they’re lying to you.
Your examples don’t really fit what I was trying to say–they’re the same genre (Survival Horror, RPG) as the series they belong to. My examples (fighting, rhythm, and fighting again) are all spinoffs of a different genre–trying to accomplish entirely different things than their core series. Just like BoM isn’t trying to “match the legacy of the original four games” (one of which was universally panned by the fanbase for years).
Also, every SH except 4 feels like an American horror movie–that was what “Team Silent” was going for. When all the reviews compared SH2′s atmosphere to David Lynch (rather than RE’s Romero influence) they were making this rather clear. Jacob’s ladder is not Eastern horror either.
At any rate, you’re a little late to the party.
I’m surprised you responded, Mr. Hulett. Thank you.
The first thing I would like to address is the theme of the newer games versus the old. While I do applaud Downpour’s more familiar feel (it reminds me of Stephen King, which is good, as Homecoming’s blatant SAW influence in places felt like a cop out), it still lacks the signature feel of the older games. As I said earlier, the newer games lack a crucial element of literary and psychological evocation. When I think of old Silent Hill, I think Nabokov, Lynch, Bacon, Koontz, King, etc… Takayoshi Sato in particular understood that stirring a player’s core emotion was key to creating a memorable experience. In the most cursory of instances in SH:SM and Homecoming did I feel that I was becoming scared, or that the experience was speaking to me on an unconscious level. When Harry comes into contact with his wife in SH:SM, especially on the boat, these are strange, intriguing, yet somehow appalling circumstances- it truly felt in this one particular moment that your team was beginning to understand Team Silent’s ‘sex and death’ motif; however, the rest of the game failed to achieve that subtext, instead changing the latent vibe and making it a blatant Hollywood style set piece. Instead of intriguing me with the abstract (a la Silent Hill 2′s environments, key moments, feel, and story), SH:SM, and the rest of the newer Silent Hill games make the whole affair blatant, as if highlighting “you need to be scared, you need to be appalled, you need to be invested”. It feels like Hollywood, which I believe, as I said earlier, undermines our intelligence as players.
Example: Pyramid Head’s infamous ‘rape scene’, versus the erotic asphyxiation voicemail in SH:SM, versus just about any moment in Homecoming.
Pyramid Head isn’t really doing anything if you analyze what’s taking place in the apartments. It’s just enough visually to give us the impression that something wrong is taking place. It’s more haunting this way as it allows room for interpretation.
In SH:SM, the voicemail in question is overt, even without showing us much visually aside from the photo. It’s a blatant, Hollywood style scare device; not only is it pointless as a plot device, it’s random and apparent that it was added specifically for shock value.
In Homecoming, the entire game felt like a theme park ride. This accusation is leveled constantly at Homecoming. Homecoming was a bit shallow of an experience in my opinion, far behind in creativity and overall tone, which, if you claim to love Silent Hill as much as you do (I do believe you really love this franchise), you would agree.
Mr. Hulett, I don’t have allegations so much as I have qualms. The trend Silent Hill has taken (this was the point I was making with my earlier post), seems to be a recurring thing in the games industry, and especially in Hollywood. A movie like Jacob’s Ladder, if it were made today, would be much more blatant and dumbed down to suit a wider audience, sacrificing its original, permeating and off kilter vibe; there would be a lot more violence and language, and the pace would be sped up to keep a modern audience’s attention. Twin Peaks would be loaded down with even more sex than before, the pace sped up, the lingering shots omitted entirely, etc. Silent Hill evolved steadily and became something new, something that appealed to a larger audience, more Hollywood. For that reason alone, it feels that Silent Hill has done an about face as a series and forgot its older fans. Resident Evil 5, as I said, entirely omitted the vibe we had become accustomed to. Final Fantasy XIII- 2 was slammed by series devotees for being too unlike what made the series great in the past. The three games you mentioned were entirely different takes on established franchises, but the difference I wanted to point out with your example was that those games, even if they were entirely different from the established formula of their predecessors, they still maintain the subtle nuances and overarching tone of their respective franchises. With Book of Memories, sure, I could understand if this was the topic of your post and the point you were making- I suppose I chose the wrong venue to analyze semantics regarding Silent Hill. I haven’t played BoM yet, so I can’t fairly offer my opinion.
I wish you the best.
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